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Showing posts from July, 2009

Wingnut Wrapup

I am afraid it's time to go over the rules of Wingnut Wrapup, for those conservatives who still don't understand. Listen, guys, to earn the coveted honor of a place here, your posts must incorporate lies, belligerence, and above all a suitability for quick ridicule. Just one of the three won't do! Come on now, many of your friends have mastered the skill. If you're still confused, look at Pam Atlas or Joseph Farah for guidance. They are the best. Now, onward: Greg Hengler, Town Hall: "MSNBC Anchor Says Thought Of Newt's 2012 Run Is "Scary" For Republicans, maybe. For us Dems, it would be a dream come true. Bob McEwen, Town Hall: "Obama Turns On Freedom Around the Globe" Which apparently consists of Honduras, Iran and the United States. That's it. Where did all those other countries go? My son was in Japan a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure glad he got back before it vanished. Jonah Goldberg: "The God Who Bleeds

Island of Doom

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Just in case you don't have enough to worry about today, how about this: " Will Krakatoa rock the world again? Last time, it killed thousands and changed the weather for five years, now it could be even deadlier..." Above, a photo of Krakatoa today.

Change We Can Believe In, continuing

From CQ: " House Passes Sweeping Food Safety Bill On its second try, the House passed a sweeping food safety bill that would create new traceability requirements for the food supply chain and strengthen facility inspections." Here's a big surprise: " Republicans still withheld their support. “This bill would go too far in trying to produce food from a bureaucrat’s chair in Washington,” complained (the Agriculture committee's) ranking Republican, Frank D. Lucas of Oklahoma." Think we would have gotten this bill through a Republican congress?

Excellent News from Congressional Progressives

This very good news , from The Hill: "Liberal Dems have 57 votes against Blue Dog plan Liberal lawmakers who oppose a deal House leaders cut with centrist Blue Dog Democrats have gathered signatures from 57 lawmakers who say they won't vote for the plan." Two can play at this game, and this action is essential to giving Barack Obama the ability to go to the Blue Dogs and tell them that no health care reform legislation without a public option is going to pass. These Blue Dogs always claim that they have to vote the way they do, because they live in relatively conservative districts, and they will be in danger if they do the right thing. Well, Obama can now make them face the prospect of their intransigence precipitating a total failure on health care reform. Let's see how they do, running as Democrats, after that, particularly when the party will have every reason to cut them off without a penny, the next time they run. No mercy for them.

When Can We Call Them Brownshirts?

This is, I believe, a most important and disturbing story, from Think Progress: "This morning, Politico reported that Democratic members of Congress are increasingly being harassed by “angry sign-carrying mobs and disruptive behavior” at local town halls. For example, in one incident, right-wing protesters surrounded Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and forced police officers to have to escort him to his car for safety. This growing phenomenon is often marked by violence and absurdity.... much of these protests are coordinated by public relations firms and lobbyists who have a stake in opposing President Obama’s reforms. A leaked memo from Bob MacGuffie, a volunteer with the FreedomWorks website Tea Party Patriots, details how members should be infiltrating town halls and harassing Democratic members of Congress... Patients United, a front group maintained by Americans for Prosperity, is currently busing people all over the country for more protests against Democratic members. Re

Fun With the Kos Poll

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This being Friday, it's time to take a look at the weekly Daily Kos tracking poll. Obama essentially unchanged at 62% positive; Pelosi and Reed up slightly, at 34% and 32% respectively, Boehner and McConnell down slightly at 18% and 13% (!) Yes, thirteen percent of the American people view the Republican Senate leader positively. Way to go guys. Party ratings? Both down 2, leaving the Dems at 45 % and the Republicans at a new low of 19%! Even worse when they look at congressional ratings- Congressional Dems +2 at 41% positive, and Congressional Republicans -2 at (get ready for this one, I saved the best for last) a massive positive rating of (are you sitting down?) 10%. You read that right. One person in every ten approves of congressional Republicans this week! Way to go, guys. You are really on that comeback trail I keep reading about. Now, this amusing chart from Kos: I think this should give the Republican party something to think about. But, of course

Wingnut Wrapup

An extremely poor showing today- I guess the wingnuts wore themselves out yesterday. Guys, you've got to pace yourselves. You've still got seven and a half more years of Obama. Jillian Bandes, Town Hall: "Liberal Bloggers Perpetuate Birther Conspiracy" Aha, it's all their fault. Of course, up until three days ago, it was the most important issue in the country. I guess the liberals didn't get the Republican talking points yet. Debra Saunders, Town Hall: "No Thin Line Between Murder and Hate" If congress passes hate crimes legislation, it's just the same as murdering people at the Holocaust museum, or shooting doctors in church. I can see how you guys would buy into that line of thinking. Unfortunately. Red State: "Lamar Alexander to Support Sotomayor – A Knife in the Back of Republicans, the Constitution and Conservatism" That's what it is if a Republican votes to confirm a Democrtatic Supreme Court pick. It says

Arizona Avoids Tax Increase

What a world: "Desperate State May Sell Capitol Building, Others Under GOP plan, government would pay to lease back most of the sites. Call it a sign of desperate times: Legislators are considering selling the House and Senate buildings where they've conducted state business for more than 50 years." But, by God, they aren't going to raise taxes! Responsible citizenship, Republican style!

End the Tyranny

Total sense from Kos: " "Time to end the tyranny of the long-serving chairmanships Republicans have instituted term limits for their chairman, meaning they can't monopolize top committees for decades and giving other members of their caucus a chance to hold leadership positions. Democrats, on the other hand, work on a seniority system that rewards the longest-serving members and converts them into corrupt, arrogant and unaccountable autocrats. There's no better example of this dynamic in action than Sen. Max Baucus and his Senate Finance Committee, where he and three of his best buddies are working to overrule the will of the entire House and virtually the entire Democratic caucus in the Senate while vacuuming up huge dollars from his lobbyist friends. But he doesn't give a shit, because there's nothing anyone else can do about it. Except that some in the Democratic caucus are tiring of this arrangement." This is a great post, with more good stuff

WE HAVE ALREADY WON

Read the papers or watch cable news these days, and you would think Obama is on a fast train to oblivion, and the Republican lie machine has succeeded in smashing health care reform to smithereens. All the usual sources, like Chris Matthews, have abandoned their supposed new awareness, and returned to being robot vendors of corporate spin, and all you hear is that it's over for the public option, and Democrats are going down with the ship. As usual, a pack of lies. Let me explain to you where we are now, and what is going to happen next: Yesterday, Henry Waxman and Nancy Pelosi revealed that they have enough votes in the House, where there is no filibuster, to deliver what 76% of the American people want- a health care reform bill with a public option. Republicans and the gutless, corrupt blue dogs can postpone it for five weeks and call that a victory, but the votes are there. Now, regardless of what the Senate does, that means that we are going to see two different bills go

Finally, An Explanation for Why the Birth Certificate is So Important

There are times when single articles are so crammed full of idiocy, that they smash through the confines of Wingnut Wrapup, and demand to receive their own, individual dose of ridicule and contempt. Why, you may ask, do these heads-above-the-rest specimens of lunacy so often come from Renew America? I don't know, but here is another skull-exploding wonder from them. I have to warn you that what follows is so sputteringly incoherent that it may cause deep dizziness and nausea: "Why the birth certificate? By Helen Valois" Helen starts out with a bang, I must say: "Referencing existing German law specifically excluding the commission of euthanasia, Bishop Clemens von Galen thus reminded his countrymen, during the summer of 1941, that the ignominious hospital-based murders being perpetrated by the Third Reich were, in fact, illegal... Hitler and his brown-shirted cabal had appropriated the authority to determine what would and would not be allowed...." W

An Addendum to Wingnut Wrapup

I mentioned in Wingnut Wrapup yesterday that, all of a sudden, in a single day, many right wing websites that have been supporting the birther idiocy suddenly turned against it. I talked to someone who asked for some examples, so here are eight web posts since yesterday. I thought that was enough to make my point, although I am sure I could have found more: Red State: "Taking Down the Birthers" Town Hall: "Close Encounters of the Absurd Kind" Don Surber, via Instapundit: "I call them birfers. Like 9/11 troofers only dumber. Others call them birthers. They are the people who believe that President Obama was born outside the United States and therefore is constitutionally barred from being president." Confederate Yankee: "And the Obama Birth Wars Continue..." Gateway Pundit, "Forms of Madness" Matt C. Abbott, Renew America: "Obama 'birthgate' ain't goin' nowhere" Joel B. Pollack, American Thi

Wingnut Wrapup

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Not much in the way of surprises today, just the usual lunacy. It's amazing how they never fail to provide us with this sort of junk, day after day: Newsweek: "Why Obama should make George W. Bush his Mideast envoy." Because you sell more magazines when the world is really screwed up? I sure can't think of any other reason why you would saddle us with that malicious incompetent again. Maybe you really do believe Obama is trying to destroy the country- this would be about the quickest way to bring that about. Senator John Kyl: "The health insurance industry is one of the most regulated industries in America. "They don't need to be 'kept honest' by the government." Oh, no. No, the insurance industry is the most honest, caring business in the country, and would never do anything that is not in our best interest. You want to see Senatorial corruption in action? Well, here it is. Walter Williams, Town Hall: "How can political

Republican Honesty in Action

H. R. 3309- the "Small Business Job Security Act" What does it do? Prevent the minimum wage from being raised for another year.

Keep Government Out of Medicare!

From the Washington Monthly, a funny article: "Rep. Robert Inglis (R-S.C.) recently hosted a town-hall meeting, at which a man insisted, in all seriousness, "Keep your government hands off my Medicare." The constituent, apparently, didn't appreciate the irony." Conservatives are apparently so committed to their delusions about health care, that they are managing to convince themselves that medicare has nothing to do with the government. The whole article is well worth a read, and will provide you with a couple more good laughs.

Superhero

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Would you want to see what a real life superhero looks like? From Talking Points Memo: "House Retains Public Option In Compromise, But Delays Vote Until September....Substantively, leadership seems to have given up very little, but, Blue Dogs succeeded at slow walking the bill, which won't get a vote until after the August recess. The public option hasn't gone away, and remains intact." Yes, Henry Waxman has beaten the blue dogs to their knees, keeping what the American people want and need in this bill, while giving up peanuts in return. A couple of days ago, I mentioned a comment by some idiot wingnut asking why anyone would vote for this guy. Well, wingnut, here's your answer. Now, where is the senator who is going to do the same thing?

Wingnut Wrapup

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Some good quality lunacy today, so let's just dive right in: Thomas Sowell, Town Hall: " After many a disappointment with someone, and especially after a disaster, we may be able to look back at numerous clues that should have warned us that the person we trusted did not deserve our trust...When that person is the President of the United States, the potential for disaster is virtually unlimited." Talking about Bush there, I assume. No, Obama? Oh, I understand now. The disaster under Bush was not "potential," it was unfortunately real. Too bad you didn't object back then. Debra J. Saunders, Town Hall, "All American Kooks" The birthers. After months of encouraging them, all of a sudden, in one single day, wingnut websites all across the internet are calling them crazy. Think of this, the next time you are tempted to think that there isn't someone behind the scenes pulling these guys' strings. Ray Walser, The Heritage Foundation

Some Jihadists are Ours, Like it or Not

This story, from the AP, doesn't seem to be getting much attention yet: "RALEIGH, N.C. — A North Carolina man trained in Pakistan and Afghanistan has been charged along with six of his alleged recruits with conspiring to support terrorism and traveling overseas to participate in "violent jihad," according to an indictment unsealed Monday." Boy, wait until the wingnuts get hold of this, right? "The indictment said Boyd, a U.S. citizen, trained in Afghanistan and fought there between 1989 and 1992 against the Soviet Union before returning to the United States..." That would be during the presidency of George Bush the first, when the jihadists were supported by the United States, and these lunatics were our guys. I wonder if the man who got his terrorist training in Afghanistan will be allowed to point out that we were financing the people who trained him? Blowback is a bitch. Green Eagles's first principle of International Relations: Sup

Home Prices Up

And this news: "NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The value of U.S. homes grew on a monthly basis in May for the first time in nearly three years, according to 20-city index released Tuesday." Since, according to Republican jackasses around the country, Obama is now totally responsible for the economy, I guess he is responsible for this, too.

Obama Puts Down a Stick

Here's a small story from the New York Times. I'm sure it will get no attention, but to me it's symbolic of a lot: "The Obama administration has pulled the plug on an electronic billboard outside the American diplomatic mission in Havana that was used to tweak the Cuban government with pro-democracy messages and became a symbol of the bad blood between the two countries. When the billboard went up in 2006, some saw it as an innovative diplomatic stick in the eye of the government of Fidel Castro." A diplomatic stick in the eye. Look it up- putting a stick in someone's eye is the very definition of diplomacy. Insignificant as it is, this story perfectly demonstrates the difference between having adults in the White House, and having Republicans there.

Traitors Attack

From the AP: "WASHINGTON – After weeks of secretive talks, a bipartisan group in the Senate edged closer Monday to a health care compromise that omits a requirement for businesses to offer coverage to their workers and lacks a government insurance option.... The senators involved in the negotiations are all members of the Senate Finance Committee , and include Sen. Max Baucus , D-Mont., the chairman, and Chuck Grassley , R- Iowa , the senior Republican. Others participating are Democratic Sens. Kent Conrad of North Dakota and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico , and Republicans Olympia Snowe of Maine and Mike Enzi of Wyoming ." Let us be clear: This is not a compromise. It is a sellout to the ghouls who see our health as nothing but a source of profit. We expect no more from Republicans, who are one and all crooks, owned by big business. The three Democrats involved in this malicious charade need to be cut off immediately from any shred of support from their fellow D

Jeans

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I try to never steal from Sadly, No! but I couldn't resist this find. I justify my criminal behavior by my addition of the pictorial evidence. From National Review Online: " Washington Post fashion columnist Robin Givhan was brutal in her assessment of “the unfortunate dungarees President Obama wore to throw out the first pitch at the All-Star Game in St. Louis.” According to Givhan, President Obama will occasionally need to wear casual clothing, but “[t]he blousy polo shirts will not do. And neither will those beloved jeans. They may be comfortable and they may be neatly pressed, but they are not in the least bit presidential.” So George Will may be incorrect in claiming that adults in general should avoid jeans, but it is pretty clear that presidents should not wear them."

Wingnut Wrapup- Governor Sarah Palin Memorial Edition

The best of a bad lot. I'm almost starting to feel sorry for Republicans. Their hearts just don't seem to be in it these days: Matt Lewis, Politics Daily: "(Palin) sought to undermine criticism that she was "quitting" by ending her term early." Without much luck, one might think, given as how "ending her term early" is pretty much exactly the same thing as "quitting," isn't it? Or have I forgot how to speak English? Olivia Offner, Town Hall: "Pelosi Doesn't Care If You Like Her-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is the most unpopular political figure in America." I don't know how much Pelosi cares about how much I like her, but here are some numbers on the subject: Daily Kos tracking poll, July 20, 2009: Pelosi 33% favorable; McConnell 19% favorable; Boehner, 14% favorable. They just can't resist lying about anything, can they? Harry R. Jackson, Jr, Town Hall: "Has Rodney King Moved to Cambridge? &qu

Militants Attack

From the BBC: "Dozens of people have been killed after Islamist militants staged three attacks in northern Nigeria, taking the total killed in two days of violence to 150." The militants are followers of a cleric named Mohammed Yusuf: "Mr Yusuf's followers in Bauchi are known as Boko Haram, which means "Education is prohibited". Just thought you might like to know. I'm sure that this is Israel's fault, somehow.

A Country Gone Off the Rails

A pretty picture: "Executives and other highly compensated employees now receive more than one-third of all pay in the U.S., according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of Social Security Administration data — without counting billions of dollars more in pay that remains off federal radar screens that measure wages and salaries. Highly paid employees received nearly $2.1 trillion of the $6.4 trillion in total U.S. pay in 2007, the latest figures available. The compensation numbers don’t include incentive stock options, unexercised stock options, unvested restricted stock units and certain benefits." Is there anyone who still wonders what has gone wrong with our economy? Or, for that matter, with our whole society? It is time for the government to step in and take a large part of these people's ill-gotten gains, amassed through decades of paid corruption, lying conservative pseudo-economic theory, and good old fashioned criminality.

News of the World for Parrots

From Haaretz: "Cockatoo stolen from kibbutz identifies owner, screeching 'Dad!' We don't let these things pass by unnoticed here on Green Eagle.

Right On, Nancy

Nancy Pelosi really seems to be getting the hang of that leadership thing: "The top House Democrat says she is standing by her support for a public health insurance option as part of a broader overhaul of the nation’s health care sector. “No, no, no, no,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said in an interview that aired Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union when asked whether she had softened her position on the public option. Pelosi also rejected the idea of using a trigger to kick in a public option.... “I think the private insurance industry has had a long enough time to have a trigger. We know what happens left to their own devices,” the California Democrat said." This is the kind of forthright position we need from Washington. Who in their right mind would trust the insurance companies, at this point, to do the right thing? Congratulations, Nancy, for coming out on the right side of this issue. Your turn, Harry. We're waiting.

Wingnut Wrapup

What a load of crap, as usual. I think I'm going to have to start paring this down a little: Austin Hill, Town Hall: "Why Aren't Americans Obeying Obama?" You see, Austin, it's this way. We liberals don't believe it's our responsibility to obey the President. That's why we feel free to disagree with him. It's sort of a Republican thing to mindlessly follow orders. Doug Giles, Town Hall: "Did anybody else notice feces fumes coming off Obama’s head during his last presser?" Keep it classy, Doug. We need your sort of detailed political analysis. Gateway Pundit: "There's more proof today that the Democrat's health bill promotes euthenasia." No there's not. But here it is again, "Support Democrats and Die!"- the only argument you have left. Gateway Pundit: "Hundreds of Tea Party Patriots attended the rally yesterday in Alton, Illinois just north of St. Louis:" Hundreds. Hundreds

Pakistan- Still a Threat

Lest we forget: " The Taliban's power in Pakistan continues to grow and it now has entire towns under its control. Under US pressure, the Pakistani army is fighting the Islamists -- with limited success. Pakistani intelligence says the Americans are doing more harm than good." Things may seem to have quieted down in Pakistan, but don't be fooled: the threat still exists . These are religious lunatics with guns who are less than a hundred miles away from nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, the same thing could be said about people on military bases all over our country.

Bad News and Good News about Global Warming

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Courtesy of The Guardian, the above photos, showing " Satellite images of polar ice sheets taken in July 2006 and July 2007 showing the retreating ice during the summer." The Guardian continues: "Graphic images that reveal the devastating impact of global warming in the Arctic have been released by the US military. The photographs, taken by spy satellites over the past decade, confirm that in recent years vast areas in high latitudes have lost their ice cover in summer months." These photos, taken in July of each year off the coast of Point Barrow, show the frightening decrease in polar ice coverage that is taking place. None of this will be news to most of the people who find their way to this blog. The real reason I want to direct you to this article is this: "The pictures, kept secret by Washington during the presidency of George W Bush, were declassified by the White House last week. President Barack Obama is currently trying to galva

Wingnut Wrapup

I think the wingnuts are so infuriated today about the idea that a black man is allowed to be a professor in this country, that they didn't have much time to maunder on as usual. Sorry, I've run out of patience with reading their nonsense. After all, it is Saturday. Here we go- the best of a bad crop. Bill Kristol, Washington Post: "So on health care, I’d be surprised if the president changed any minds, because he never seriously tried to address criticism of his proposal on the merits." Bill, when you guys come up with some criticisms on the merits, instead of a bunch of lies and smears, get back to us and we'll deal with it. I promise. Jonathan Garthwaite, Town Hall: "ObamaCare Struggles, Dow Soars " Aha! The Dow has gained 39% since early March. We can't admit that it could be Obama's doing. Let's think up some sort of lunatic explanation where he's the bad guy. That'll work. Little Pammy Geller, Atlas Shrugs: &qu

Constitution meant Nothing to Bush Administration

It's hard to believe, but it just keeps getting worse. From the New York Times, today: "WASHINGTON — Top Bush administration officials in 2002 debated testing the Constitution by sending American troops into the suburbs of Buffalo to arrest a group of men....according to former administration officials. " Testing the Constitution. Really. Testing it by openly violating it and seeing if anyone had the guts to try to stop them. "...Some of the advisers to President George W. Bush, including Vice President Dick Cheney, argued that a president had the power to use the military on domestic soil to sweep up the....suspects...." Now a side light about the words I left out above. Yes, these guys were (however ludicrously) regarded as terrorism suspects. I didn't leave that out to hide the fact, but because it doesn't make any difference. The law is absolutely clear that what was proposed here is totally illegal, no matter what the excuse: "...

Blue Dogs

Boy, does this put things right on the table. From a blog that is new to me called They Gave Us a Republic: "Blue Dogs, you see, are not Democrats. They are repugs, pretending to be dems in order to play little "centrist" games that so entertain the Beltway Villagers. Blue Dogs are diapered infants who have to be the center of attention. They don't care about party loyalty; they don't care about their constituents, they don't care about policy, they sure as hell don't care about deficits (every single one of them voted orgasmically for Smirky's trillion-dolllar tax cuts and trillion-dollar war "supplementals" that exploded the deficit.) Blue Dogs are political sociopaths: utterly amoral users with no empathy, no conscience, no remorse." Exactly right, and thank you for the concise statement of the truth. "...utterly amoral users with no empathy, no conscience, no remorse." I.e, as you point out, Republicans.

Wingnut Wrapup

I mentioned in another post that there is a concerted attempt to convince people that Obama is failing, in the hopes of creating the right's own reality by manipulating public perception. I want to start out Wingnut Wrapup today with a few examples of this phenomenon. I don't think they need much comment, except to point out that they are, like all right wing claims, false: Rich Galen: Bad Days in Obamaville Pat Buchanan: Has Obama's Luck Run Out? Charles Krauthammer: Why Obamacare is Sinking Jennifer Rubin, Pajamas Media: “The air seemed to go out of the ObamaCare balloon Thursday.” T. K. Farrow, Pajamas Media: “Obama's Popularity Falling — But Not Among Blacks” A. W. R. Hawkins, Human Events: “Obama's Health Care plan is in trouble, and so is he.” Fred Barnes, Weekly Standard: “Obama's Already Lost the Health Care Argument” I could list plenty more if I wanted, but I think you get the point. Of course, the few points that Obama's favorabili

Republicans' Alamo

The panic is thick in the air concerning health care reform in the left blogosphere today. Yes, the Republicans are mounting their fully expected multimillion dollar lieapalooza in defense of their real constituents, the insurance companies. They are trotting out the same old falsehoods that have worked so well for fifty years, and engaging in an absolute orgy of obstructionism and betrayal of their responsibility, in order to prevent the American people from having the same quality of health care as the rest of the industrialized world. As anyone could have predicted, the mainstream media have rushed back home to their corporate mamas and are manufacturing a 24 hour a day campaign to undermine confidence in Obama, and dissipate his momentum by focusing on any pathetic, irrelevant issues they can find, and generally declaring him dead in the water. Od course, the insurance companies and the HMO's who eat a third of our medical expenditures in overhead, have spent millions i

The Birthers- the Simple Truth

We've all had a good laugh about the birthers. Here is a spectacular interview with G. Gordon Liddy, from Hardball, via Crooks and Liars, which I think takes this beyond the status of a joke: What I find so interesting about this is the way Chris Matthews confronts Liddy with so much evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii, but Liddy just doesn't care. He simply goes on repeating the same nonsensical and mostly clearly false claims, without the least concern for their total irrationality. my favorite is his distinguishing between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth," which is a birth certificate. I've heard a number of birthers make this same idiotic claim. Well, here is what I am getting to here: There is not one single second when these people are in the least concerned with Obama's birth certificate- that's why they don't give a damn about regurgitating patently false claims. What do they care about? Here'

Manny

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Yeah!

Wingnut Wrapup

The wingnuts are out in force today, spreading lies about Obama's health care proposals. But, you've heard it all before, so I'll pretty well skip it. Here's what's left: From Think Progress: "Gingrich agrees with Kristol" Sorry to put you in here, Think Progress, but I loved the headline. Gingrich agrees with Kristol. Who could have ever predicted that? Now, a few things from a new site for Wingnut Wrapup, OpenMarket. This site is from the "Competitive Enterprise Institute," which is funded by oil companies and car manufacturers, and is by far the largest sponsor in the world of anti-global warming propaganda. Here's some more of their contribution to our national discourse: Wayne Crews, OpenMarket: "Doctors On Strike: What if They Just Said “No” to the Healthcare Hairball?" Yeah, what if they just said no? Bye bye to those mercedes and golf club memberships, bye bye to those Hawaii vacations- Can't have those if