Tuesday, June 16, 2009

Holy Joe- Lying Like a Republican Again

Holy Joe Lieberman, on MSNBC, favoring with his position on health care reform:

"Lieberman: Yea, I'm a against it because I think, two reasons. One is I'm fearful that at a time that we're spending too much here in Washington and going much too deeply in debt that a public option on health care no matter how you structure it will end up costing the taxpayers money. We don't need it. There's more than three hundred and fifty companies, maybe more than that selling health insurance, there's going to be a lot of competition for health insurance once universal health insurance comes."

Oh, I see. Too much money. Which could be better spent on some more military aggression, I suppose. Joe, you're never against that, are you. "It will end up costing the taxpayers money." Did it ever occur to you, you lying scum, that it's already costing Americans more money than anywhere on earth, and they are getting crap in return?

And with three hundred and fifty insurance companies, how is it that all of this so-called competition is not already producing lower medical costs? What will make them lower costs in the future if they haven't done it so far? You know this damned well, Joe, and you stand there and lie you ass off so the insurance companies can continue raping the country.

We hear people like the miserable weakling Harry Reid constantly claiming that Joe Lieberman agrees with the Democrats on everything but defense issues. What do you have to say now, Harry?

Joe and Harry- a cockroach and a worm.

Update: "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says he'll ditch bipartisanship in the Senate if it means getting a health care reform bill."

Do you believe this for a second? I don't. I think this is just Harry Reid's way of getting real Democrats off his back, until it's time to cave. I hope I'm wrong.


Derek said...

"Did it ever occur to you, you lying scum, that it's already costing Americans more money than anywhere on earth, and they are getting crap in return?"

Actually this isn't true in any sense. Most people pay more by percentage of income throughout the world for their healthcare than we do. If you would like to point to Europe and say it is "free", then I would like show you their outrageously high taxes. Nothing is "free". Also, under Obamacare, most Americans, aka the ones who already have insurance (+85% of them), will be paying more for their healthcare as they will be subsidizing the premiums of those who are unhealthy. In reality, very very very few do not receive proper care. With medicaid and medicare, every American has access to healthcare. All you have to do is walk into an ER of a public hospital and you will be treated, insured or not. By law they have to treat you.

Note how the real way to reduce costs would be to attack the problem, not a symptom. The real problem is medical malpractice insurance. You wonder why doctors and pharmaceutical companies charge so much? They have to pay an arm and a leg for malpractice insurance. My guess is tighten the law to protect the doctors or find a way to make malpractice insurance less and then you solve the entire problem.

Healthcare costs go down, accessibility goes up, and the taxpayer burden decreases. And yes, we do not have money for frivolous endeavors that result in nearly as many people being uninsured, all at a detriment to the average American.

Of course, I wouldn't expect someone with the liberal stance to understand the reasoning behind going to war with Iraq, but I would encourage you to read the intelligence dossiers from the UN, Britain, and our own government before passing judgment on those who were in favor of invading.

TRUTH 101 said...

Are you referring to the intelligence General Powell presented to the UN Derek?

And what wonderful health insurance company do you have Brother. Mine is slated to go up another $18 a month July 1st. Plus what my taxes pay for those who don't have insurance.

Poll P. said...

I've worked really hard all my life and paid into the company's health plan, via my employee's share. I have no job now (at 62) and no health insurance except my husband's, and his job is disappearing too, it seems. Our two kids, 19 and 22, have no health insurance. One sprained his ancle, thought it was broken, and went to the E.R.; they took a couple x-rays, and billed him $1600 for half-price care for the uninsured. He'll be paying that off for a long long time. Something's got to give.

Green Eagle said...


More money means more money, total or per capita. I said nothing about percentage of income, which is irrelevant to the issue of what we get for our money. So it is true in these two senses. Derek, I enjoy talking to you, but again, I have to point out that there has to be some recognition of basic facts if there is to be any communication. The per capita cost to Europeans, which is largely paid through taxes, is included in the statistics I have seen, and by any standard, we come off very poorly.

And the argument that you can get adequate treatment for chronic or serious illnesses in emergency rooms is nothing but a Republican talking point.

Finally, the cost of medical malpractice insurance is an almost insignificant factor. Again, this is a Republican talking point, designed to further a decades-long campaign to make it impossible for individuals to hold corporations responsible for their actions.

Derek said...

"And the argument that you can get adequate treatment for chronic or serious illnesses in emergency rooms"

Then you are covered by medicaid or medicare. Also, you become admitted to the hospital if you need prolonged treatment. Like I said, it is illegal for a public hospital to deny patients care. Note how it isn't just emergency care, but care in general. We have universal healthcare already. Period. It is a fact, no way around it.

"Finally, the cost of medical malpractice insurance is an almost insignificant factor."

Because the hundreds of thousands of dollars for every doctor not to mention hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and health services providers doesn't factor in at all. Oh, and the rates have been increasing by 20% a year for awhile now, and it doesn't seem to be stopping. Medical malpractice insurance is a big part of the problem.

"individuals to hold corporations responsible for their actions"

What actions? I hear a lot coming from you but I never see and concrete evidence or claims. Say anything you want but if you are to deny my logic/claims, at least present something of substance of your own to counter my points. It seems your "republican talking point" claim is more of a go to move rather than a valid statement, much like Terry's "because derek says so!". I personally have never heard a republican say anything about malpractice insurance. So republican talking point? No.

Poll P: Check medicaid and medicare, they can cover you. In the mean time, check out a free clinic in your area. Just search it on google. Here in Columbus, there are dozens that are open 24 hours a day and provide quality care for free. They are also great sources to find prolonged care for extremely cheap.

truth101: I am under CIGNA. And no, I am referring to the British intelligence dossiers from Feb 2003 and the UN weapons reports the 6 months leading up to the invasion of Iraq. Also, there are some good memos from Hans Blix floating around the internet that contain some extremely useful info when trying to find the motive to go to war. Of course, Bush's whole democratic peace crap was just that; a load of crap. However, the wmd threat seemed universally accepted and supported by numerous factions prior to the invasion.

Green Eagle said...

Again, I can only repeat that if you ignore the most basic reality of medical care in this country, we can't have much of a conversation. Five percent of our entire gross domestic product goes to insurance companies' costs of denying medical coverage. The overhead for these services is over 30%. The overhead of government care (i.e. medicare) is about 3%. I think you may be too young to have lived through this, but medical care in this country was immensely better when it was provided primarily by nonprofit entities, before Ronald Reagan saw to it that our health became nothing but a new source of profit. This is more of "deregulation," which was simply a process where Reagan made it legal to do things that were once crimes. We live with the results in so many areas of society, and health care is one of them.

Derek said...

Note how you ignored all I said. I try to have a discussion, and I am addressing the "claims" you make, but you still say that I am neglecting truth? Yes, we spend a lot on healthcare. But note how our system is one of the best in the world. The fact that we make morbidly obese people live to almost 100 is a miracle. 85% of Americans are happy with their healthcare. So you are suggesting we change it to satisfy the 15%? So much for democracy and the greater good.

Green, I know it is hard to face someone who disagrees with you, but seriously, how are insurance companies harming our healthcare?

How will Obamacare fix this in any way?

Americans spend $5,267 per capita on healthcare. The average EU country with socialized medicine had $2,193 per capita. Count in their taxes which are nearly double ours in many areas and their cost suddenly is far higher.

Again, address Obamacare, if you even support it.

You might find this interesting: http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_cost_of_free_government_he_1.html