Green Eagle Talks to a Wingnut
Here's an amusing little Facebook interchange that Green Eagle had yesterday with a wingnut. It sort of reveals, I think, the difference in intellectual capacity and honesty that left wingers and right wingers bring to an discussion. I think you will agree.
Third person: "I'm saying an AR-15 is only good for one thing, and it ain't squirrel huntin'..."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "I agree, it's mostly good for protection from Tyranny, just like in the Constitution."
Green Eagle: "The old lie, over and over again, Norman. That is not in any way what the second amendment is about, as revealed in the Federalist Paper remarks of the people who wrote the second amendment. In fact, Alexander Hamilton said that people who believed that were mentally ill. Here, for your information is something on this subject I posted to my blog a couple of weeks ago:
http://largegreenbird.blogspot.com/2012/12/about-that-second-amendment.html (readers may remember this post of mine from a couple of weeks ago quoting Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, the authors of the second amendment, denying explicitly that the militias it refers to are to defend people against government tyranny. Check it out if you want.)
Ignorant right wing asshole: "...with all due respect, your Green Eagle article is the biggest crock of crap that I have ever read. The 2nd Amendment gives each of us our own individual rights to keep and bear arms, period, Live with it because none of us are giving them up."
Green Eagle: "Norman, apparently the Federalist Papers are a bunch of crap too, even though they were written by the guys who wrote the second amendment; since my article is virtually totally based on what they had to say. If you have any actual disagreement with anything I said, let's hear it. Otherwise, as your remark is a fact-free personal attack, reasonable people will conclude that you are an ignorant ass. And by the way, can the "with all due respect" bullshit. You have no respect for what I have to say, because you have no respect for what the founding fathers had to say. People like you care nothing about the real meaning of the Constitution; they are like three year olds who care about nothing but what they want that moment, and will say and do anything to get it."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Wow, right on schedule. I guess i expected you to act like a jerk, but not so soon. I was respectful to you like i am with anyone else that wants to have a decent conversation, but as usual and on Que, you as always prove my point when I'm discussing the differences between the Left and the Right, you have proven my point once again. Did you hear the one about the United states Supreme Court ruling on the 2nd amendment, it seems that they agree that we as Americans have the Right to Bear Arms for our protection and trust me, we will. Have a wonderful day"
Green Eagle: "You were respectful to me, when you referred to my blog post, totally backed up with quotes from primary sources, as the biggest crock of crap you have ever read? Like most Conservatives, you will lie right in the face of the evidence, and because the truth means nothing to you, you don't feel the slightest shred of shame. You have once again failed to present one sliver of argument to demonstrate how my quotations from the Federalist papers, and the lying, made-up pseudo-quotations from right wingers about the founding fathers I mentioned are in any way wrong. Instead, you just trot out the abuse. If I was wrong about what I said, tell me why. Otherwise, let me tell you something. I've been listening to people like you for forty years, and your pathetic personal attacks aren't going to deflect me in any way from presenting the plain truth."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "There's absolutely no reason for debate, I will never change your mind and you damned sure won't change mine. what is important in the near future will be the actions that Obama takes relating to this subject. Again this is another thing that divides the country and will possibly cause conflict or even Revolution, depending on how far he goes in disarming Americans. We still have to deal with Illegal Aliens and Global Warming, can't wait."
Green Eagle: "You have once again failed to present one sliver of argument to demonstrate how my quotations from the Federalist papers, and the lying, made-up pseudo-quotations from right wingers about the founding fathers I mentioned are in any way wrong." I know I just said that above, but it is still true. I am not trying to convince you. I'm trying to let Alexander Hamilton and James Madison convince you. What they had to say about the second amendment is utterly clear, and after all, they wrote the thing. You just won't hear it."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Like I said, no sense in debating something that neither of us are going to change our mind. Did you check the Supreme court decision that I mentioned earlier ?"
Green Eagle: "But my opinion is based on facts, and yours is based on right wing lies. I guess you can't see the difference there."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Give it up, guess you don't care what the Supreme Court ruled?"
Green Eagle: "I care what the actual people who wrote the second amendment said. They were perfectly clear about the second amendment, and it was not intended for citizens to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. That is a lie, and it is that lie that I am speaking out against. The Supreme Court ruling you refer to, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008) DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al., Petitioners, v. Dick Anthony HELLER (I presume,) speaks to an individual right to own arms (and is, by the way, a grotesque act of right wing judicial activism.) The original issue that you brought up was, to quote you, "...it's mostly good for protection from Tyranny, just like in the Constitution." That is a deliberate lie about what the Constitution says; District of Columbia v. Heller has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. In a classic example of right wing refusal to face reality, you simply brought up this decision to muddy the waters, since you can't deal with the clear words of the founding fathers. Now, unless you have something to say regarding the passages from Federalist Papers 28 and 29 written by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison which I quoted, I've got nothing more to say. As an addendum, here is the cite for District of Columbia v. Heller:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2739870581644084946&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr"
Ignorant right wing asshole: "You are wrong and NOBODY is taking our guns, NOBODY."
____________________________________________________
Well, facts versus lies, trying to discover the truth versus belligerence and deliberate evasion. As I said, I've talked to people like this for over forty years, and they never change. Thank the lord that so many of them are getting old and dying off, and that the younger generations seem to have their heads screwed on so much tighter, because people like this guy are the fuel of Fascism.
Third person: "I'm saying an AR-15 is only good for one thing, and it ain't squirrel huntin'..."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "I agree, it's mostly good for protection from Tyranny, just like in the Constitution."
Green Eagle: "The old lie, over and over again, Norman. That is not in any way what the second amendment is about, as revealed in the Federalist Paper remarks of the people who wrote the second amendment. In fact, Alexander Hamilton said that people who believed that were mentally ill. Here, for your information is something on this subject I posted to my blog a couple of weeks ago:
http://largegreenbird.blogspot.com/2012/12/about-that-second-amendment.html (readers may remember this post of mine from a couple of weeks ago quoting Alexander Hamilton and James Madison, the authors of the second amendment, denying explicitly that the militias it refers to are to defend people against government tyranny. Check it out if you want.)
Ignorant right wing asshole: "...with all due respect, your Green Eagle article is the biggest crock of crap that I have ever read. The 2nd Amendment gives each of us our own individual rights to keep and bear arms, period, Live with it because none of us are giving them up."
Green Eagle: "Norman, apparently the Federalist Papers are a bunch of crap too, even though they were written by the guys who wrote the second amendment; since my article is virtually totally based on what they had to say. If you have any actual disagreement with anything I said, let's hear it. Otherwise, as your remark is a fact-free personal attack, reasonable people will conclude that you are an ignorant ass. And by the way, can the "with all due respect" bullshit. You have no respect for what I have to say, because you have no respect for what the founding fathers had to say. People like you care nothing about the real meaning of the Constitution; they are like three year olds who care about nothing but what they want that moment, and will say and do anything to get it."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Wow, right on schedule. I guess i expected you to act like a jerk, but not so soon. I was respectful to you like i am with anyone else that wants to have a decent conversation, but as usual and on Que, you as always prove my point when I'm discussing the differences between the Left and the Right, you have proven my point once again. Did you hear the one about the United states Supreme Court ruling on the 2nd amendment, it seems that they agree that we as Americans have the Right to Bear Arms for our protection and trust me, we will. Have a wonderful day"
Green Eagle: "You were respectful to me, when you referred to my blog post, totally backed up with quotes from primary sources, as the biggest crock of crap you have ever read? Like most Conservatives, you will lie right in the face of the evidence, and because the truth means nothing to you, you don't feel the slightest shred of shame. You have once again failed to present one sliver of argument to demonstrate how my quotations from the Federalist papers, and the lying, made-up pseudo-quotations from right wingers about the founding fathers I mentioned are in any way wrong. Instead, you just trot out the abuse. If I was wrong about what I said, tell me why. Otherwise, let me tell you something. I've been listening to people like you for forty years, and your pathetic personal attacks aren't going to deflect me in any way from presenting the plain truth."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "There's absolutely no reason for debate, I will never change your mind and you damned sure won't change mine. what is important in the near future will be the actions that Obama takes relating to this subject. Again this is another thing that divides the country and will possibly cause conflict or even Revolution, depending on how far he goes in disarming Americans. We still have to deal with Illegal Aliens and Global Warming, can't wait."
Green Eagle: "You have once again failed to present one sliver of argument to demonstrate how my quotations from the Federalist papers, and the lying, made-up pseudo-quotations from right wingers about the founding fathers I mentioned are in any way wrong." I know I just said that above, but it is still true. I am not trying to convince you. I'm trying to let Alexander Hamilton and James Madison convince you. What they had to say about the second amendment is utterly clear, and after all, they wrote the thing. You just won't hear it."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Like I said, no sense in debating something that neither of us are going to change our mind. Did you check the Supreme court decision that I mentioned earlier ?"
Green Eagle: "But my opinion is based on facts, and yours is based on right wing lies. I guess you can't see the difference there."
Ignorant right wing asshole: "Give it up, guess you don't care what the Supreme Court ruled?"
Green Eagle: "I care what the actual people who wrote the second amendment said. They were perfectly clear about the second amendment, and it was not intended for citizens to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. That is a lie, and it is that lie that I am speaking out against. The Supreme Court ruling you refer to, 128 S.Ct. 2783 (2008) DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al., Petitioners, v. Dick Anthony HELLER (I presume,) speaks to an individual right to own arms (and is, by the way, a grotesque act of right wing judicial activism.) The original issue that you brought up was, to quote you, "...it's mostly good for protection from Tyranny, just like in the Constitution." That is a deliberate lie about what the Constitution says; District of Columbia v. Heller has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. In a classic example of right wing refusal to face reality, you simply brought up this decision to muddy the waters, since you can't deal with the clear words of the founding fathers. Now, unless you have something to say regarding the passages from Federalist Papers 28 and 29 written by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison which I quoted, I've got nothing more to say. As an addendum, here is the cite for District of Columbia v. Heller:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2739870581644084946&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr"
Ignorant right wing asshole: "You are wrong and NOBODY is taking our guns, NOBODY."
____________________________________________________
Well, facts versus lies, trying to discover the truth versus belligerence and deliberate evasion. As I said, I've talked to people like this for over forty years, and they never change. Thank the lord that so many of them are getting old and dying off, and that the younger generations seem to have their heads screwed on so much tighter, because people like this guy are the fuel of Fascism.
Comments
http://www.bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2013/01/unconstipational-violationism.html